Finding Seth and John Spencer Leonard Seth Spencer was born in 17 October 1826 in Trumbull County, OH. Leonard was the son of Jehiel Spencer and Elizabeth (Betsey) Blackburn who were married on 10 November 1825, in Vernon, Trumbull, OH. According to the biography of Leonard, Jehiel's father was Seth Spencer and his grandfather was John Spencer. There is no reason to doubt this information; however, to date research has failed to provide much evidence relating to Jehiel's pedigree. Statements from the 1896 Biography of Leonard Seth Spencer which likely came from Leonard Seth Spencer, himself. "Jehiel Spencer, the father of Leonard Seth Spencer, was born in Rutland County, Vermont, October 16, 1800. He resided there until seventeen years of age, when the family removed to New York State, remaining there five years. From 1822 until 1845 he resided in Ohio, moved thence to Illinois, and in 1860 came to Iowa, where he spent the remainder of his life, dying in 1863, at the age of sixty-three years. He was a farmer by occupation, was an earnest and conscientious man, and was a strong adherent of the Methodist Church." "His father, Seth Spencer, was born in Hartford County, Connecticut, in 1779. The latter [Seth] served for two years as a soldier in the war of 1812. Later in life he moved to Vermont, afterward to New York, and next to Ohio, dying in the latter State in 1832." "His father, John Spencer, was a native of New Hampshire. In early life he was a soldier in the Revolutionary war, having participated in the historical battle of Bennington, as well as in many others. Mr. Spencer served through nearly the entire struggle, and was at the battle and surrender of General Burgoyne. He departed this life in his native State, at the age of ninety years." Spencer Family Slate “Brought from Scotland in 1773 by John Spencer who settled in Connecticut in the same year, who was in the Revolutionary War and participated in the Battle of Bennington and the surrender of Burgoyne, then to Seth Spencer of Vermont who was a soldier in the War of 1812 participating in the Battle of Plattsburg and other battles. Then to Jehiel Spencer of Rutland County Vermont who passed it to his son L.S. Spencer to be passed to future generations. . .” While the slate itself may have come from Scotland, it is likely that what was written on the slate originated no earlier than with Leonard Seth Spencer. Based on biographies and Slate, one would expect to locate supporting research evidence; however, this has proven otherwise. Where are records for Seth and John Spencer, the father and grandfather of Jehiel Spencer? Below is my research regarding Seth and John Spencer, the father and grandfather of Jehiel Spencer. Seth and John Spencers in Connecticut Presumably Seth Spencer was born in Hartford CT in or about 1779. There are a few John Spencers having children in Connecticut but none found with a wife Margaret and more importantly none found with a Seth Spencer of the right age. Below are a few of the located Seth and John Spencers that don’t appear to fit. •John Spencer and Susannah having children from 1773 to 1781 in East Hadden, Middlesex, CT. •John Spencer and Eunice having children from 1786 to 1799 in Suffield, Hartford, CT. •John Spencer and Deborah having two sons in 1770 and 1773 in New Hartford, CT. •John Spencer and Wethy having children beginning in 1770 in Preston, New London, CT; apparently the same couple having children in Clarendon VT in 1784 and 1787. •Seth Spencer and Jerusha having children from 1779 to 1797 in Litchfield, CT. This is the couple that are apparently listed in the 1800 census. •Seth Spencer born 27 September 1789 in New Hartford CT to Jonah Spencer. •Seth Spencer born 7 January 1766 in Haddam, CT son of Nathaniel Spencer and Elizabeth Lee. •John Spencer died on 9 January 1826 in New Hartford, Litchfield, CT who was married to Deborah Dodd and Jerusha Henderson. Seth and John Spencers in New Hampshire One may expect to find John Spencer in the 1790 census for New Hampshire and perhaps later censuses if that was his native state after leaving Connecticut and if he indeed lived to be 90 years old. John Spencer has a son Robert born 1791 in Croydon, NH who died 25 December 1878 in Vermont. This is apparently the John listed in the Croydon, Strafford, NH 1800 census with three males and one female under the age of 10, too young to be the father of Seth who should be 21 years of age. Next to John is listed Robert Spencer age over 45 who has a male, 16 to 25. There are no other John Spencers as search results for the 1800 census of New Hampshire. Seth Spencer and Lydia are having children from 1773 to 1781 in Bridgewater, Grafton, NH. This Seth Spencer is listed in numerous censuses for NH; however, he is too old to be “our” Seth Spencer. Vital records for New Hampshire appear scant. Lorilla Spencer, a granddaughter of Leonard Seth Spencer, believed that Seth Spencer was a boyhood friend of Daniel Webster. As Daniel Webster grew up in Salisbury, NH, one would expect to find Spencers mentioned in the records associate with Salisbury; however, this does not appear to be the case. The History of Salisbury provides an extensive Highway Tax list for 1780 with no Spencers and a Ministerial Tax List for 1791 with no Spencers. John Spencers in Vermont From the Slate and biographies, there is no reason to believe that John Spencer ever lived in Vermont. Apparently Seth was born about 1779 in Hartford, CT then moved with his father, John, to New Hampshire and then on his own to Vermont by 1800 as his son Jehiel was born in the 1797 to 1801 time frame, presumably in Rutland County Vermont. There was a John Spencer living in Rupert County VT with a son Seth who was born 17 February 1789. Right name combination; however, Seth’s birth is 10 years too late to be “our” Seth –who will father his own child in 1800. This John Spencer is likely the same person mentioned in the Revolutionary War Widow's File, W19389, for a John Spencer born 24 May 1758 in Spencerville, NY and who died 25 August 1826 in Chautauqua County, New York. His wife, Rebecca Spencer, was his first cousin. Listed are 13 children including Seth Spencer born 17 February 1789. Apparently this John Spencer served as a Lieutenant, seemingly a much too high rank for "our" John Spencer. This John Spencer also lived in Oneida County, NY before moving to Chautauqua about 1807. Furthermore, this John Spencer apparently was listed as living in Rupert, Bennington, Vermont in the 1790 census with two daughters and one son, presumably the Seth born in 1789. This is apparently the same John Spencer that my father claimed in his research as being "our" John Spencer. My father referenced a deed dated 28 February 1800 from Bennington County, Vermont where John Spencer is noted as "late of Rupert, now of Worcester, Albany, New York." The problem is the Biography stated that "our" John Spencer "departed this life in his native State" which certainly was not New York. A John Spencer who served in the Revolutionary War died on 9 February 1812 in Clarendon, Rutland County VT; however, he died at age 68 whereas “our” John Spencer presumably died at age 90 in New Hampshire. Still the 1896 biography stated that Seth's son Jehiel was born in Rutland County, Vermont and this John is presumably the John Spencer living in Clarendon, Rutland, Vermont in 1800 . This entry had a male and female over 45, a male 16 to 25 of age to be Seth, a female 10 to 16 and two females under 10. There was no Seth or John Spencer in the 1810 census for Rutland County, VT. Seth Spencers in Vermont There are only three Seth Spencers listed in the 1800 census. Two are noted above in Connecticut and in New Hampshire. The other instance is a couple living in Manchester, Bennington, VT that fits the profile for “our” Seth Spencer each age 16 to 25. Presumably this same couple appears in the 1810 census for Manchester, Bennington, Vermont with four males and one female under the age of 10 and presumed parents ages 26 to 45. No birth or christening records have been located for these children. If things were only so uncomplicated; however, there is presumably another Seth Spencer in Manchester, Bennington, VT as one Seth Spencer married Susannah Dyer on 5 February 1806 in Shaftsbury, Bennington, Vermont. The Seth Spencer who married Susannah Dyer was born on 22 March 1780 according to his tombstone. He is the son of Charles Spencer, born 10 March 1749, in Greenwich RI and died 17 Nov 1838 in Shaftsbury, VT coincidentally about age 90. Given a marriage of 1806, this Seth cannot be the father of Jehiel in 1800 unless Susannah was his second marriage. This Seth was born on 22 March 1780 and died on 8 August 1853 in Shaftsbury, Bennington, VT. One would expect an entry in the 1810 census for this Seth and Susannah Spencer; however, none was located to fit their profile. It should be noted that I once subscribed to this Seth and Susannah being the parents of Jehiel; however that was before being aware of the biography for Leonard Seth Spencer stating his grandfather Seth had moved to New York in 1817 and had died in 1832 in Ohio. Any references in online trees referring to Jehiel as the son of this Seth Spencer originated from erroneous conclusions prior to awareness of the 1896 biography and should be avoided. It was always difficult reconciling Jehiel being born in 1800 to Seth and Susannah, six years prior to their marriage. I must admit to being somewhat dismayed with this error as ancestors of Susannah Dyer included Roger Williams and Anne Hutchinson whom we took great pride in claiming as "ours." Seth Spencer 1805 Manchester, Bennington, Vermont A Seth Spencer is listed as being eligible for taxes in 1805 although it appears he was exempted for serving in the militia. Is this Seth Spencer the one who married Susannah Dyer in 1806 or the one listed in the 1800 Manchester census? Seth Spencer 1810 Fairfield, Franklin, Vermont There is a Seth Spencer in Fairfield, Franklin, Vermont in 1810. There was a John Spencer in both 1800 and 1810 for St. Albans, Franklin, Vermont. There are 4 other men named John Spencer in the 1810 Vermont census, none from Rutland County. Seth Spencer 1820 Vermont There are no Seth Spencer's in the Ancestry 1820 Vermont index. According to the 1896 biography, Seth Spencer moved to New York sometime about 1817. The only Seth Spencer in the 1820 Ancestry New York census index is one living in Pomprey, Chautaugua, NY --presumably the aforementioned Revolutionary War lieutenant who cannot be "my Seth." Wrong turn? Where is "our" Seth Spencer? Seth Spencer of the War of 1812 The 1896 biography claimed that Seth Spencer, Jehiel's father was a veteran of the War of 1812 and participated at the Battle of Plattsburgh. Seth was presumably living in or near Rutland County Vermont in 1814 at the time of the Battle of Plattsburgh that lasted from 6 to 11 September 1814. There is a Seth Spencer who served in Captain Isaac Webbers Company from Connecticut who fought in the Battle of Plattsburgh. Using Ancestry, I found an entry for Selth Spencer in the 1st Regiment Brainard's Connecticut Militia, Roll 196, 602. It is unclear why “our” Seth from Vermont would be serving in units raised in Connecticut. Seth Spencer in New York As the 1896 biography stated that Seth left Vermont in 1817, staying in New York until 1822, Seth Spencer should be found in the 1820 census for New York. About 300 men with the surname of Spencer are included in the Ancestry index for the 1820 census of New York. One is named Seth, being the aforementioned Seth born in 1789, the son of John Spencer who lived in Rupert, Bennington, Vermont in 1790, who moved to Worchester, Albany, NY and then to Pomfret, Chautauqua, NY where they are listed in the 1820 census. This Seth Spencer died 5 May 1830 in Sheridan, Chautauqua, NY. Another Seth Spencer was born on 22 February 1784 in Middlesex CT the son of Stephen Spencer and Rhoda Squire. He died in Dewitt, Onondaga, NY on 3 March 1866. On findagrave, he was noted as being one of the earliest settlers of Manlius, NY. Seth Spencer in Ohio The 1896 biography stated that Jehiel left New York with his family about 1822. This reference to family indicates that more than Jehiel and his father Seth moved to Ohio. We know Jehiel is in Trumbull County, Ohio by 1825 because he married Elizabeth Blackburn in Vernon Township, Trumbull County on 10 November 1825. Elizabeth's father, Leonard Blackburn owned land in Vernon, Trumbull, Ohio. Jehiel is included in tax lists for 1826, 1827, and 1829 for Vernon, Trumbull, Ohio. Jehiel is listed in the 1830 Leroy, Geauga, Ohio census as Jehial. Living in the household is a male age 50 to 60, corresponding to a birth of 1770 to 1780 period. Presumably this could be Seth Spencer who according to the 1896 biography died in Ohio in 1832. There was a Seth Spencer in Trumbull County in 1824, as a marriage between a Seth Spencer and Mary Rutledge occurred on 8 January 1824. It seems implausible for “our” Seth Spencer to be married at his age to a young woman. Surprisingly, Mary Rutledge's sister, Sarah, was married on 19 September 1822, to Leonard Blackburn , presumably, the son of my aforementioned Leonard Blackburn, Jehiel's father-in-law. No Seth Spencer could be located in the 1830 census to match the Seth married in 1824. Another marriage of a Seth Spencer occurred on 20 November 1831 in Leroy, Geauga, Ohio to an Anna Baker, coincidentally where Jehiel is listed in the 1830 census. Again, no Seth Spencer could be located in the 1840 census to match either the 1824 or 1831 marriages. And a Seth Spencer was listed on the tax roll for Vernon, Trumbull County, Ohio for 1833. There are several marriages of Spencers in Trumbull County and in Geauga County when Jehiel was living in these two counties. Since the marriage records contain no information about parents of the bride and groom, it is inconclusive whether or how any of these Spencers were related to Jehiel. There is a Seth Spencer (entry 652) in the 1814 Trumbull County Ohio Tax List along with Daniel Spencer, Haulsey Spencer, and Nathan Spencer (entries 649-651 respectively). This Seth Spencer apparently came to Geauga County, Ohio in 1810 from New Hartford, Connecticut and selected lot 13 for his son Halsey. This Seth Spencer died in Ohio as his will was submitted to the Geauga County Court of Common Pleas on 26 June 1820. His will was dated 15 September 1812, where he identified himself as "I, Seth Spencer, late of New Hartford in the State of Connecticut." He listed the following children in his will: Samuel, Halsey, Hanson, Norman, Abram, Jerusha, and Florialla. This cannot be "our" Seth Spencer who left Connecticut long before 1810 and he did not arrive in Ohio until about 1822. Seth Spencer Trees I identified nine men named Seth Spencer with parents and three other Seth Spencer's with online family trees. None of the 12 matched for "our" Seth Spencer with a father of John, a birth year about 1779, a birth place of Hartford CT, and a death year about 1832 in Ohio. Even if one concludes that the Iowa Biography of Leonard Spencer is woefully incorrect, there is still no logical Seth Spencer to be the father of "our" Jehiel. John Spencer's Revolutionary War Service A John Spencer served as a private for 2 months in Captain Abel Walker's company, in Colonel David Hobart's regiment, in General Stark's brigade that fought at the Battle of Saratoga in July 1777 that led to the surrender of Burgoyne. If this is our John Spencer and he lived to be about 90 years old, then where are his pension papers or other historical records? A John Spencer served as Quartermaster for 1 month and 12 days with Colonel Benjamin Bellow's regiment at Ticonderoga in May 1777. A John Spencer served in Captain Parmalee Allen's Company, in Colonel Herrick Vermont Regiment of Rangers. He served as a private for 142 days from 15 July to 3 December in 1777 There is a John Spencer who served as a Lieutenant in Willett's New York regiment. He is presumed to be the aforementioned John Spencer who died in Chautauqua County, New York. Apparently the above two John Spencers were combined in the following entry: " Spencer, John, Lt. (NY) VT; b. 1744; Capt Allen's co 1777?; r. Rupert 1790; d. Sheridan, NY 1826; bur Clarendon? 41, p. 50; CL-11a, 105:828; CL-41; R-6." It is clear that the John Spencer in Captain Allen's unit served as a private for 142 days from 15 July to 3 December in 1777 and not as a Lieutenant. There is a John Spencer, a Revolutionary soldier, born about 1744 that died on 9 February 1812, who is buried at the Chippenhook cemetery in Clarendon, Rutland, Vermont. If he is the patriot that served in Herrick's Vermont Rangers then that person cannot be "our" John Spencer since he died at age 68 and not age 90. A John Spencer also served as a private for eight days during the "alarm in October 1780" in Captain Jonas Galusha's company in Colonel Herrick's regiment. Presumably, this is the same John Spencer that served in Captain Allen's company of Colonel Herrick's regiment in 1777. Interestingly of the 55 men on the 1780 pay roll there were three other Spencer men besides John: Isaac Spencer, William Spencer, and Rufus Spencer. Since the Biography stated that John Spencer died at age 90, then pension records should exist. Unfortunately, of the 12 men named John Spencer listed by White in his book, Abstracts of Revolutionary War Pension Files , none correlate with "our" John Spencer. John Spencer in New Hampshire For completeness, I am mentioning a John Spencer who while living in Suffield, Hartford, Connecticut enlisted in 1776 and served in Captains John Harson's, Morgan's, and Barnard's companies in Colonel Mott's regiment; and in Captain Hooglan's company in Colonel Sheldon's regiment of Light Dragoons. John was wounded and discharged in 1782. He was allowed a pension in 1819 at age 61 [born 1758] while a resident of Suffield, Connecticut. About 1832, he moved to Mantua, Portage, Ohio to be with his children. He died 3 April 1832, in Mantua, Portage, Ohio. He was married to Eunice Phelps on 24 February 1786, in Suffield. She was allowed a pension in 1840, age 73 [born 1767], while living in Mantua. A son Hiram, living in Mantua was also mentioned. John Spence and Margaret Gottree/Guthrie My father concluded that our John Spencer was John Spence christened 8 August 1742 in Carstairs, Lenark, Scotland, the son of William Michael Spence and Marion Hutchinson. John is believed to have married Margaret Gottree/Guthrie on 31 May 1772 at Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland. My father listed Margaret as the daughter of Charles Guthrie and Ann Geddie. My father reported, this John and Margaret arrived at New York City between 3-10 February 1774 on the ship Commerce from Port Greenocke, Scotland with Captain Duncan Ferguson as Master. John Spencer was listed on the passenger list as from Paisley, weaver, and Margaret, his wife, 27, spinster. As yet, I have not located any information of this John and Margaret settling in Connecticut or going to New Hampshire or Vermont. It is not possible that John Spence and Margaret Guthrie came to Connecticut before 1786 as they were listed as the parents of Alexander Spence who was born 23 July 1786 at Bolton, East Lothian, Scotland. Therefore the John Spencer and Margaret that arrived in 1774 were not John Spence and Margaret Guthrie.