User:Luccagenes

My name is Jim and I was born, raised, and retired in Minnesota, USA

Paternal grandparents were from the province of Lucca, Italy hence the username Luccagenes. To be specific my grandfather was from San Filippo, Lucca, Lucca, Italy which is just outside the walled city of Lucca, Lucca, Lucca, Italy. My grandmother is from Coselli, Capannori, Lucca, Italy which is a few miles south of the city of Lucca, Italy.

I can be contacted via the talk page (until I can figure out another way)

Why am I here?
(from a novice's point of view)

My involvement here started with a GetSatisfaction suggestion which obviously no one would want to pursue (other than in discussion) so I guess it is up to the one that made the suggestion to see if it could possibly work. I am really out of my depth here and just trying to figure out how to use this wiki, all the while hoping my inexperience, in and of itself, is not going to be the cause of the downfall of this idea (if it won’t work that’s fine, just so it gets a fair shake).

Frustration in finding “help” on specific topics while using Family Tree and listening to others finding similar difficulties has led to the idea that a “centralized” place to find all types of learning aids might be a benefit to beginners and training experts alike. The bigger issue was that this “Help Central” would have to be accessible while one is in the middle of research or data entry and the answers had to be found quickly without significantly disrupting one’s current activities. Now, I realize that a “help central” is far from unique on the web but they are usually related to a small scope (e.g., a directory for a town) and provide various website links. I was looking for something more in that it had to have a specific front-end objective (easy navigation for the inexperienced and quick infallible access; “click to find”). Another specific back-end objective that was also desired was that the results themselves (the answers) had to be universally and directly accessible by sources inside the Help Central and to the outside world (possibly software programs). During all this the results had to be accessible for updating as necessary (like in wiki). Discussions led to the possibility of using this wiki (as well as the pros and cons of doing so); so anyway here we are.

Below is the diagram that initiated this concept as well as another diagram as to how I am going to try to structure this project within WIKI. I realize this structural design may eat up a lot of WIKI pages at its maturity but one of the primary objectives is to be able to have an individual web address for each lookup “word” or "phrase" that is the subject of a help request. The ultimate goal (only speculatively assuming buy in from the software developers) would be to link each of these addresses to a “help” button in the software itself so that instant access could be achieved. When a wiki page is accessed it would display the subject word, a brief definition or description, and any and all web links that could direct the user to a source that has the answer. Presumably this could work on a multi-language level and could also work in areas outside the initial Family Tree user’s environment. Beyond the initial construction, the site maintenance should be fairly manageable because if someone develops a new training video and they want it included within the functionality of this system then they should and will make the edits themselves (obviously I’m making things up now as I have no idea how involved this project is going to be in the long run).

There is one question I’m not sure of (wish there was a “Help Central” for this wiki so I could look it up). The question relates to how the Index List page (as depicted in the diagram) is structured and the question is as follows: If someone selects a topic, such as “sources”, is there a way to display the contents of the sub-topic page that is listed under “sources” (e.g., the words tagging or creating) in a way that literally reflects the contents of the individual sub-topic page onto the “sources” page so the data does not have to be reproduced manually (and be constantly updated to match the sub-topic page)? Did that make sense? In other words, is there a type of internal wiki link that will display portions of one page onto another page so that when corrections are made to the primary page the changes will be reflected on the other page with the link? This is the last major structural issue that I haven’t figured out yet.

Anyway here we are (at least here I am, talking to myself) trying to figure out what’s next and hoping this experiment falls within the scope of what is allowed on this FamilySearch Research WIKI site. Hopefully there will be more to discuss later if I can find the fervor to pursue this to some logical and useful conclusion.

For anyone reading this (not sure how this works yet, I don't know if anyone even has access to this page) a final comment is that this project is being done on the fly so any input, corrections, or suggestions are more than welcome.

Luccagenes 17:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

It has been a pretty good day as far as progress is concerned. I figured a way to bypass the technical issue mentioned earlier although the original "reflection" idea would be best. For now I am planning on having the grandchild subpage set up with three tables, the last of which will list all the sub-topics to each main word and they would be linked to their own pages. This would mean the user would have to click multiple times to get around but for now I'm stuck with that. As mentioned the "reflection" idea would be the best because then all the info would be seen on the first page.

I also figured out how to set up the Alphabetical lists page with the capability of being multi-lingual (if it ever comes to that). After a lot of searching I also found an article describing how to copy a page so I wrote up a bullet list of what to do and will include that info on the page template. There will only be one page that has to be repeatedly replicated (hundreds of times) and that is the grandchild sub-page. The primary page and the 5 child pages may get long but should remain relatively accessible by using the content box properly. I haven't gotten a notification that the diagrams had been received yet but here's hoping they did not get lost. All in all a long but productive day. Tomorrow will have to start getting the index and alphabetical lists started.

PS I happened to think up a truism that may be corny but actually sums up this project very nicely: "Normally it is easier to ask a question than look up an answer.  Soon it will be easier to find an answer and share it with others." God forbid that I stole a quote from someone but the mind is getting more feable so I just don't know if I heard it before.

Luccagenes 07:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Apparently the terminology for what I had called "reflection" is actually called Transclusion. See article at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion. I don't know if this is supported on this wiki but will have to find out before progressing too far.

Luccagenes 15:44, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Update: remember some notes.

Note1: It appears tranclusion is supported (https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Transcluded) but is somewhat confusing so I will have to request some help when I get to that point. I'm concerned about what would happen if a continuous loop was accidentally created.

Note2: I want to include a reference to the user manual (+page number) within the first table on the grandchild pages. First table is for a description of the word, the second table will include the links to various sources (the answers), and the third is for links to other grandchild pages containing pertinent information. Transclusion would possibly be used to display the related info (non-editable) on the currently viewed page. Anyway, another thought was that I should request that the user manuals be added to wiki as their own page so that the reference to the manual could actually link the user to the actual page where the info is found rather than linking to an external PDF where the user would have to remember and then find that page. This is all assuming this project ever gets off the ground.

Note3: As mentioned I compiled a bullet list for making the grandchild page duplication but I will also have to make one for extending the individual tables within those pages (in case it becomes necessary). First of all I will have to tweak the formatting on the template page to lock the column widths and change fonts and cell and line spacing since the normal editor tool is somewhat restrictive. Using the tool you cannot select a table and add rows or change the font size without using heading settings (which will cause problems with the content box). The list goes on and on.

Luccagenes 16:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Before I forget:

Note4: I've decided to use a page hierarchy (as mentioned earlier concerning the grandchild page) so here is the naming hierarchy that will be used once I start creating pages.

Parent:  Help Central: interface

Child1:  Help Central: interface/alpha      (aka: alphabetical lists)

Child2:  Help Central: interface/index      (aka: index lists - topics)

Child3:  Help Central: interface/quick      (aka:primary documents and general links)

Child4:  Help Central: interface/FAQ        (aka: tricks of the trade and quick fixes)

Child5:  Help Central interface/image       (aka: image maps)

Grandchild: Help Central interface/alpha/(specific subject "word" or "phrase")

The specific "word" or "phrase" will be added after the backslash (omitting parenthesis or quote marks) and can be the English word or any multi-lingual word so each language could directly go to a page constructed in that desired language. The parent and child pages would require translation but they are being designed (at least trying to be designed) more on a logical (hopefully a universal) and intuitive manner to minimize user problems. The use of the content box which will show language selection options should be easy to navigate. My big concern for translation was the grandchild pages of which there eventually could be thousands, so making grandchild pages in multiple languages seems the most efficient. I will have to give this a lot more thought as it was only recently brought to my attention that translation is a major hurdle that has to be overcome in wiki (requires lots of peoplepower and this is only a one person effort).

Luccagenes 17:56, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Just talked with support because I cannot get the images uploaded (no automatic email notification that they were received). Support stated that the wiki cite is down but since I'm typing here the question is how many wiki sites are there?

Luccagenes 21:03, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, will have to forget the diagrams. Wasted all day trying to figure it out but doesn't appear to be at my end. Oh well.

Luccagenes 01:24, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I just realized the hardest part of this project is going to be determining how to address the keywords that will be used for the grandchild pages. Phrases such as "tagging sources" would have to be distinguished from "tagging photos" and so on. Or does one use the word "tagging" and reference that against "sources" and "photos". Will have to think about this for awhile.

Eventually the easiest method to use this system is going to be by utilizing the "image maps" of the actual pages but that can only be addressed after the "alphabetical list" is done since that is where the image map links will be directed to. The "index list" will not be as useful in the short term since it will only reference back to the user manual which is not currently accessable with links. The "general links" is easy but has been done before in different formats and the "FAQ/tricks of the trade" is something that will have to develope over time via user input. More later.

Luccagenes 05:01, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Started the slow job of figuring out the keywords and phrases. Copied the index from the manual so will also have to figure out the topics (multiple keywords) too. For reference, here are a few links I will need shortly and do not want to loose (since there is not a HelpCentral for this wiki ...yet!

Table nodifications: https://beta.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Help:Table

Advanced Linking: https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Help:Advanced_Linking

Luccagenes 12:40, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

A question for later: Would it be possible for the users to rate (rank) the results. For example, if 4 links to various sources of the answer are displayed for the keyword "sources" is there a way to rank the usefullness of the links (good, better, best). Over the long term this would have 2 effects; first a new user would know where to look first, and secondly, developers of say video instructions would want their ranking high so better videos may get made. Will have to get back to this idea later.

Luccagenes 13:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Finally got access back to FamilySearch. It appears there was a corrupt cookie related to my log in which resulted in a Bad Request error. Removed all the FS cookies and now things are fine again.

Other suggestions to keep in mind.

Add a "Quick Review" to the Tricks of the Trade section that would basically interact with the image maps so that learning the software could be done in a half hour; instead of reading a 200 page user manual.

Could also add some slideshow videos of actual pages that explain the software.

In reading GetSatisfaction today also noticed that many good ideas (tricks) and explainations of using the software too quickly get "filed" into the archives (scrolled out of view) and may help a few that are reading them but there has to be a way to log these into this system.

https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/User:Fritty/sandbox/this_is_the_place. This is someone's sandbox related to using Family Tree software (user:Fritty). The have it listed under the category: "FamilySearch Family Tree Training" which does appear to exist and would be a good category eventually for the "Help Central" idea. Since they are still working on it in their sandbox (not done yet) and that wiki article is a list of training aid references and the like, I can therefore make the assumption that this idea does fit into the scope of the Research Wiki's goals. This reference will also be a good starting point for adding links as it appears to thoroughly cover all types of source material located outside of this wiki.

Luccagenes 23:06, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

It is probably a mute point but I think I should add another layer to the page structure. The initial interface page should be left accessible so if other types of formats (other than a Family Tree software guide) are desirable there would be a place to attach them. Highly unlikely at this point but to restructure after the fact would be a nightmare. Better safe than sorry.

Parent:        HelpCentral: interface

Child1:         HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree

Grandchild1: HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree/alpha           (aka: alphabetical lists)

Grandchild2: HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree/index           (aka: index lists - topics)

Grandchild3: HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree/general        (aka:primary documents and general links)

Grandchild4: HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree/misc            (aka: tricks of the trade and quick fixes)

Grandchild5: HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree/image          (aka: image maps)

GreatGrandchild: HelpCentral:Interface/Family Tree/alpha/(specific subject "word" or "phrase")

Luccagenes 07:17, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

By the way, last night I did notice that a comment was left on the Talk page and it is appreciated (I will have to watch what I say here). This project has always relied on the eventual help from others at this wiki if it is to be successful but my job for now is to figure out a workable system so it is easier to get "buy in" from the community at large. Not saying I have to make the design perfect as I'm sure it will be optimized along the way (if successful) but I do have to make and prove it can be a functional system otherwise it would be just another pie-in-the-sky suggestion. So far the structure looks doable and promising so then it will just be a question as to whether or not this concept will work. In all likelyhood the original suggestion (at GetSatisfaction) will be hard to accomplish because the buy in from software developers will be a hard sell but it appears the idea of a Help Central could stand on its own feet and still be quite useful and successful.

I am still working on the keyword list (this will take a while) but I am also putting the finishing touches on the individual page designs in powerpoint before I actually start making the pages in the sandbox. I want to make sure they blend together and compliment each other while still remaining as simple as possible so that navigation through the system will hopefully require little or no language translation.

Luccagenes 15:49, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Misc NOTE: I've been worried about how to get different languages to work in the Hep Central system but I forgot about two of them. How does one incorporate Sign language for the deaf and "audio" for the blind. After all, if this is supposed to provide universal access then all groups must be included. Maybe I am over thinking this. Just putting a note here so I don't forget about it.

Have been experimenting with Excel to see how the keywords list can be logged so they can be put in alphabetical order while still allowing them to be cut and pasted into the wiki editor tool. This will make it easier to input the initial data but may also be useful for adding different language tables since after translation they too will have to be re-sorted. If I figure out a good method it should be added to the template page as a bullet list. Review Wikipedia article on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabetize) to help determine the alphabetical Table sizes that are going to be needed. Will this project ever be over?

Also have a curiosity question (although it is premature at this point) but is there a way to acknowledge contributors who eventually buy in to this project? Userboxes can only be used on the userpage (which is good) but is there something like a userbox that could acknowledge the contributor's involvement that could be put on an article page and possible (if desired by the contributor) have a link to their user page? Not so much as a byline but more as a link to others assisting with the project. I was thinking that at the bottom of the initial Help Central interface page (the parent page) that a list of contributors and the speciality (e.g., a foreign language) might be useful and rewarding. Check out (https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Template:Featured_Article) to see if this would work. The bigger question is that I am not sure what the policy is or if that type of thing is frowned upon. Check on this some more.

Luccagenes 19:44, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Linda, Thanks for the link to the HTML lessons; I had not found that yet. It has been 15 - 20 years since I last used HTML for a website but the side by side with the Wikitext really makes it easy. Thanks again.

Luccagenes 23:47, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

I submitted a help request to the FamilySearch help center to figure out why I cannot upload images (I could not find a specific help link for wiki support at the wiki site). I can upload okay to the Photos section in Family Tree but not to the wiki so I think it is a problem with my wiki account as my display name does not display correctly. Here's hoping this can be fixed.

Still plugging along with the keyword indentification and the wikitext coursework but all in all, I'm still optimistic that this project will work but I'm getting anxious to finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I figured out how to add additional pages to my sandbox (you know a HelpCentral project on wike help files would have made that easier). I can now start to create the individual pages that will be needed: the parent page, the initial child page, the grandchildren pages, and the great grandchild template page. I am also glad I decided to keep the initial interface page as a general access point so that other possible future projects (like a wiki help files project) could be initiated from there without the need to restructure the page hierarchy.

Luccagenes 15:38, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Diagrams
Uploaded: Concept Design diagram (waiting for approval)

Uploaded: Structural Design diagram (waiting for approval)